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Discussion Starter #1
I'm in a process of buying 2018 DS HLE, found the right color and options combination - it seems to be a car which fits the best of our needs size wise, light off-road capability wise, etc. However during the late stages of the selling process, the dealer found out they cannot sell this car as there is a recall. To make it even worse, it looks like there at this point they don't know when the parts for the fix arrive - could be a week, two weeks, etc ... Obviously getting second thoughts about the car and the brand, as I'm surprised LR puts dealers to situation when they have cars on their lots, but cannot sell them. What do you guys think? Should I wait or should I look elsewhere?
 

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That's a really bad case...what kind of recall would demand that dealer not sell the car??
This has to be some MAJOR safety issue.... Do you have the details / Can you find out what is the recall about ??

I'd be honest with you.... I knew LR had a shaky reputation when it comes to reliability but thought and was hopeful that things have improved.... I got my 2017 HSE just in November....thinking things can't be that bad.... Now as an owner of LR - I am having second thoughts about my choice.... and this is after being with Audis (2 A4 and 2 A6) for 10 yrs....and in the 10 yrs and combined 160,000 miles across the 4 cars...I feel Audis are much more reliable comparing to my first 4 months and only 3,000 miles on the LR Disco....

I am not a troll.... I joined this forum as soon as I got my Disco and was so excited about it..... just sharing my own experience.
 

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I bought my HSE in 2016 and I haven't had 1 problem with it so far.
 

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how come I can't edit my post ?
I made a bunch of spelling and grammatical errors.....

PS: 2Fly..... awesome news - because it means there is hope....Monday is my first visit for the service due to the ECL and the odd smell of oil..... + I will ask for whatever updates and TBS they need to perform to address the various "gremlins"
Really hope after that I will be able to say the same thing.... no issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Don't know the details, but the dealer mentioned something around fuel injectors - this could be a minor thing, but since I live in CA, every little thing around fuel lines or emissions prevents the car to be sold. When I drove the car, everything felt normal. Liked the ingenium engine and the 9 speed transmission worked ok. I tried to hardly accelerate when going 40, a bit of a tubolag and two downshifts, but nothing dramatic.

Well, at this point no ETA for the parts and fix, so it looks like not buying a car for a week or two at least. This also means I can keep exploring options ...
 

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Hmm, sounds strange.
Something with the Ingenium engine ?

I know the early years had a software issue but nothing hardware related.

Mine has been a champ - never a serious problem, just small annoying issues which were all addressed by the dealer!

Taking mine to an off-road course by Land Rover this weekend - will report back on how she handles mud, water, sand, and rocks!
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanks for sharing this. Yes, this looks like a serious problem. Especially since all these vehicles cannot be sold at this moment, not to mention it looks like it won't be fixed within a week, but rather it will be at least a month, possibly more. I wonder what it means for the sale price we negotiated - I guess there is gong to be more room for further discount if we decide to buy the vehicle. A month is a long time, I think we'll start investigating some other options ...
 

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I wouldn't worry too much - it's an issue that's common with Land Rover.
They have become better at solving issues since they are coming out of the ultra niche market and becoming a major player these days....

BTW, the Ingenium is a new engine for the DS - after all - we early adopters have been driving a Ford Eco Boost 2L 4 banger for 3 years now...
 

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I wouldn't worry too much - it's an issue that's common with Land Rover.
They have become better at solving issues since they are coming out of the ultra niche market and becoming a major player these days....

BTW, the Ingenium is a new engine for the DS - after all - we early adopters have been driving a Ford Eco Boost 2L 4 banger for 3 years now...
Are you serious ??
Possibility of gasoline leaking on the hot engine would be something I would be very worry about it.....regardless if there were actual fires.
Again, if you are right and this is an old problem - I am even more concerned... maybe with the older versions, the leak was such that it was dripping onto the ground or some other "cold" parts .... with their new Ingenium engine, the issue should have been avoided in the first place....but now we don't know the location of the leak in relation to the engine....what if the gasoline drips on the red hot exhaust ?
I am guessing this might be the case if the dealers can't even sell the cars...

To me this is absolutely unacceptable failure of design...I know I would be showing the door to some people if I were the CEO
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well, frankly speaking recalls are common across the board - e.g. my current car got recalled a couple of months ago with a possible gas tank leak and they found out about it 14 years after the production of the car started.

The bigger problem is the recall started on Wednesday last week and as of this moment they have no way how to fix that. This effectively means all affected cars (looks like pretty much all 237hp 2.0 Ingeniums) are stuck on dealers lots. This is a major f***up and will cause major loses to the dealers and the car company. What is also interesting - looks like this is a problem specific to the US, the same engines seems to be ok in Europe and other parts of the world ...
 

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Are you serious ??
Possibility of gasoline leaking on the hot engine would be something I would be very worry about it.....regardless if there were actual fires.
Again, if you are right and this is an old problem - I am even more concerned... maybe with the older versions, the leak was such that it was dripping onto the ground or some other "cold" parts .... with their new Ingenium engine, the issue should have been avoided in the first place....but now we don't know the location of the leak in relation to the engine....what if the gasoline drips on the red hot exhaust ?
I am guessing this might be the case if the dealers can't even sell the cars...

To me this is absolutely unacceptable failure of design...I know I would be showing the door to some people if I were the CEO
Yes, I would not be concerned because LR has made it an official recall.

I would worry much more about the manufacturers who don't make it a mandatory recall and then try to hide it - remember Toyota with the stuck accelerator issue kept saying it's the user's fault ? Or how about the people killed by faulty Takata airbags? And more recently, Chrysler/Fiat transmission fault that killed the Star Trek actor?????

Or I worry more about an accident where fuel or hydraulic fluid leaked out and causes a horrific fire!

Yes recalls are very common - how many on my DS ? Lots - all taken care of by LR.

My recent experience with BMW which had a turbo hydraulic oil tube that caused a leak on the hot engine could cause a fire - they took care of that very quickly when it came to light.

Land Rover being proactive like BMW I do not worry at all!
 

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SallyPat - I see your point in terms of LR doing their best and being quick to correct their errors and mistakes and being quick to repair the issues.....that's nice, HOWEVER....as a new LR owner, some very concerning points I have read here in the recent past.... including comments like : "Yes recalls are very common - how many on my DS ? Lots - all taken care of by LR...."
Not picking on you but want to share my point of view when it comes to cars....and I guess my point is two fold:

1. In this particular case, dealer is instructed not to release the car and is given a long timeline for solution., that's bad for the brand.... also...what about those who already own the vehicle ? Are they to drive in fear of possible fire or should they just park their cars for the next month and not drive them anywhere ?? IMO... Once a recall is declared -any issues should be solved in a matter of 2 weeks at the most - no matter how expensive this is for the company....and if it relates to safety - a loaner car should be given immediately.
2. ANY vehicle manufacturer should be embarrassed if they have a lot of recalls - I believe, those should be rare occurrences to start with.... I understand car will have issues....but multiple recalls to me are indicative of crappy design / engineering or quality.

I understand cars will break from time to time.....I know all brands have their issues - mostly minor and maybe a few major...some seems repetitive and related... If I were a Director, VP or a member of executive committee at LR (or any other car company with "chronic" recalls) I would be embarrassed if it was under my watch and my team producing substandard goods.
As a Professional I take big pride in my work and that of my colleagues and the company that I work for.....(BTW: I am not involved in any capacity in automotive industry). As a Consumer - I am putting the same level of demand for quality, reliability, workmanship - as I would demand from myself AND my colleagues and peers.
Call me a bitch for complaining about the LR App that I can't seem to start my car with - and believe me - my dealer will hear about it this Monday when I take my car in for unrelated service...and LR USA already got my feedback on that.
If they offer XYZ feature...it better work 99% of the time...otherwise it would serve them better NOT to include it in the first place - as they are otherwise diluting the value of their proposition and telling me that I am paying for things that may or may not actually work.
To me this is unacceptable in $20k or $100k cars....and anything else you can think of....watches, tools, TVs,...

Back to the topic and OP concerns - I really hope they get this solved for you ASAP and that you will now be in the position to negotiate some major discounts.... ultimately, LR DS looks great and has a lot of potential....I really like it.... but I will also vote with my wallet in 3 yrs when I will be looking for another car....and they better get their kinks ironed out by then....
Again - I realize NO CAR will ever be perfect and flawless....I have some tolerance and understanding that issues will happen....but they better be rare and minor.

Sorry for the long post and please don't read it as a rant...I am actually very calm and comfortable stating my position and believe that - We the Consumers should demand and hold companies responsible for the goods that are being sold to us...Always demand more and better !
 

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I spoke to my instructor / dealer trainer / LR product specialist about the DS Ingenium engine and he had nothing but good things to say about it.

He said the Ingenium engines are 100% better with respect to fuel economy, HP, torque, and most importantly the redesigned turbo.
The Ingenium turbo now operates at low speeds and low RPM which isn't as quick as a Supercharger but at least addresses the Ford Eco boost engine that most of us have been driving with.

This conversation came around when I was test driving the new full sized Discovery at the Carmel, CA Quail Lodge resort off road facility.
The difference between a turbo and Supercharger was night and day - the full sized LR4 weight Discovery that had the feel of a Jaguar F Pace engine blew me away at how nimble the new full sized Discovery.
The supercharger when driven from a complete stop felt exactly like a Jaguar F Pace 35t supercharged engine - quite refreshing to see it pick up speed super quickly and still have power in the higher speeds.

My instructor said the diesel which has twin turbos, will also pick up and go but with 42MPG fuel consumption to boot.
So I am going to turn my DS back to the dealer when lease ends and pick up the new full sized Discovery HSE w/ TD6 diesel engine option!
 

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Yes, I would not be concerned because LR has made it an official recall.

I would worry much more about the manufacturers who don't make it a mandatory recall and then try to hide it - remember Toyota with the stuck accelerator issue kept saying it's the user's fault ? Or how about the people killed by faulty Takata airbags? And more recently, Chrysler/Fiat transmission fault that killed the Star Trek actor?????

Or I worry more about an accident where fuel or hydraulic fluid leaked out and causes a horrific fire!

Yes recalls are very common - how many on my DS ? Lots - all taken care of by LR.

My recent experience with BMW which had a turbo hydraulic oil tube that caused a leak on the hot engine could cause a fire - they took care of that very quickly when it came to light.

Land Rover being proactive like BMW I do not worry at all!
I'm with you when I see a company recalling on problems without hesitation I trust them more then cars that "don't" have recalls... it is a peace of mind thing for me... I know with other companies that aren't recalling problems until is pretty much far to gone, that when I get nervous....

Paul... Every car will have its issues major and minor in my opinion. Whatever you jump into make sure you like it... problems or not. Every vehicle will have issues. For me my DS has been nothing but amazing a few problems and issues here and or there that have been addressed and taken care of but I am still 100% happy with the vehicle and its capabilities.
 

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I spoke to my instructor / dealer trainer / LR product specialist about the DS Ingenium engine and he had nothing but good things to say about it.

He said the Ingenium engines are 100% better with respect to fuel economy, HP, torque, and most importantly the redesigned turbo.
The Ingenium turbo now operates at low speeds and low RPM which isn't as quick as a Supercharger but at least addresses the Ford Eco boost engine that most of us have been driving with.
!
I had one as a loaner this week and was really impressed BUT (and that proves my other point here)....after a brief conversation with the guy at the service desk I heard something that REALLY shocked me as I am sure these guys are told not to share the negatives, especially with customers..... He literally said: "I'd wait a few years before getting one.... there are already a lot of kinks to iron out if you know what I mean"

I am not trying to say I hate LR...... what I am calling for (if you read my above post carefully) is that we all demand from the manufacturers (be it one with a lot of recalls or few recalls) - better quality, more money spend on testing and better reliability.... the day a Consumer says, he or she is willing to put up with issues is the day these companies get a free pass to see how much they can cut on quality....and fix it later if enough people complain.

I still don't know what my car will be like....I hope it will be a lot of fun and I will NOT spend a lot of time with loaners while it is in the shop for ANY sort of repairs (minor or major)....
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well, the ingenium engines have been around a while in Europe and pretty much across the board in Jaguars, so they are not exactly new.

Anyway got a call from a dealer and looks like I'll be picking up the car tomorrow. Just wondering - do you guys think there is more room to wiggle when it comes to the price? Originally we agreed on a price which was 2k less than the MSRP, it was along the lines what you can get as a good price with KBB, so I considered it an ok deal. Now wondering if the fact the car has been sitting three weeks on the dealer lot can help me to renegotiate the price.
 

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Well, the ingenium engines have been around a while in Europe and pretty much across the board in Jaguars, so they are not exactly new.

Anyway got a call from a dealer and looks like I'll be picking up the car tomorrow. Just wondering - do you guys think there is more room to wiggle when it comes to the price? Originally we agreed on a price which was 2k less than the MSRP, it was along the lines what you can get as a good price with KBB, so I considered it an ok deal. Now wondering if the fact the car has been sitting three weeks on the dealer lot can help me to renegotiate the price.
The way the dealers work is that they will try to make the sale but if push comes to shove as they say, the dealer will push back and ultimately they own the car.
The manufacturer treats the dealer as if they were the customer as you are in terms of allotment, pricing, terms, and warranty support.

I am sure your dealer would try to work out a better deal of course since you have not driven it off the lot yet (assumption)....

Do let us know how the dealer handled the recall issue, delays and pricing ?


OTOH:
About 2 years ago I had a recalled BMW when the airbags were defective (Takata) and found out due to the recall that I could not buy her at the end of the lease which was my request. :(
Really loved the BMW X5 diesel AWD that I had for 3 years and was ready to buy her out as it was the least problematic BMW I have had in 20 years...

The dealer had to utilize a manufacturer incentive called a "dealer sales toolbox" offered by BMW and BMW Financial Services which allowed return of the recalled leased car in any condition (bald tires, dents, cracks, excessive mileage, etc) without any charge to the lessee...
The manufacturer actually paid for all the lease return repairs/refinishing costs and then paid the dealer every day it sat on their lot while it was waiting for the parts to be installed to make the car in salable condition.
Then the dealer had the power to put a customer into another car and mark it down substantially.:|

So the BMW dealer ended up taking my over mileaged, worn out tires, dented, and worn BMW in as is without any costs to return it (I was originally going to buy her out and did not need to get it up to salable condition if I were to return it).
The dealer deducted $15,000 off a BMW 528i that I found on the lot and I ended up owning a $60K car for $45K! ;)
Instead of paying off the car immediately which I wanted to do with the X5, the dealer offered 0% financing for 4 years on the 528 so I took that because why put up all the money up front if BMWFS will put up the money!
By signing the purchase contract, BMWFS also gave away an extra year of maintenance and 100,000 warranty which made the car have 5 years / 75,000 miles of cost free maintenance as well as 5 years / 100,000 miles of warranty which really sweetened the deal! 0:)

Later I found out that the BMW dealer was 'incentivized" to take in my car and ultimately received over $10,000 for the trouble that the recall had placed on the buyer. They sold the fixed up X5 about 6 months later after the airbags were replaced out.
In the end everyone won - the manufacturer saved face and kept a customer, the dealer recouped the costs of keeping a customer happy, the finance arm (BMWFS) retained a customer for another 4 years and the customer (me) ended up with a car that I was happy to finally own.:D
 
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Discussion Starter #20
So we got the car yesterday. Firenze Red HSE with black interior and black contrast roof. Looks pretty sweet. Regarding the price - the dealer didn't want to further discount the car, they claimed there were other buyers interested, but they kept it reserved for us. Since this was the only red with black interior, it was difficult to push for further discount. As I wrote, I think we got a decent deal previously, so I didn't get too stressed about it and didn't feel like haggling for another 500 is worth the stress and time. I also paid all cash, so that further limited the dealer to make money of this deal.

So far I like it a lot, pretty sweet ride, like the audio (considering it is a basic setup, it sounds pretty good - comparable to a JBL system in our other car), the infotainment system does its job just fine (I don't really need ipad like experience in a car). Engine power is just about right. One a bit annoying thing is the start/stop system, but I don't think you can get any new car without it these days.

The only problem I have now is the fact it is really my wife's daily driver, I will be able to drive it only during the weekends :).
 
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